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Talk:Riven/@comment-7434112-20140118152608/@comment-4888212-20140131013906
nice conversation there. however, there is another thing you guys forgot or i simply overread. in order to gain those +20 shield, the pre-patch shieldamount would actually have to be destroyed. if it wouldnt have taken enough damage for the old shield to be destroyed, you wouldnt have taken damage either, while still regging HP. while it is a nice assumption to say 36<120, it is not really close to reality; because, as you guys stated, the enemy might just try to kite you for the 1.5 seconds and will not throw his entire burst at you at that time. lets see: old shield: 70 damage sponge: if enemy retreats/ignores it, you still regen HP while gaining the "god mode" how starsaviour called it. so youre not being attacked, but you have a better HP regen afterwards. new shield: 90 damage sponge, but less HP regen: if enemy retreats, you take damage after, and have more problems outsustaining it. next: old shield: 60 damage is dealt to you (1 lvl1 ability maybe to slow or stun you, any onehit wonder will do as example), your shield does not break, but you have better HP regen in case you were wounded to keep you sustained. new shield: 60 damage is dealt to you. it makes no difference, as the shield does also not break, but in case you were woulded before using it, you would now have a hard time sustaining it back. (sure its not that much tbh, but u guys were theorizing after all). ergo: the damage dealt to riven while using her shield has to bypass the amount of her pre-patch shield so her 120>36 comes into effect. (and for those 120=6*20, you have to do that every time you trade. that is highly unrealistic). what did we learn? only when the shield is destroyed by force (in 1.5 seconds, in lane? on a AD scaling shield? highly unlikely), at least 4 times per minute (or to make it round, 7 times in 2 minutes), the new version is actually better for riven. if she would take damage small enough to be shielded away by her pre-patch shield, it would be simply a HP/5 nerf. (which it honestly is). but who cares, as you now get +20 shield for the lategame woohooo. well no. cuz +20 is actually not that important in teamfightphase when you will shield for around 500 already in lategame and some people focus you. so actually, riot didnt change anything at all. they just wanted to change some stuff for the sake of changing something (not the first time). this can be showed by not putting an instant attack on her, but by giving her a dot. lets say darius gives her a bleed or teemo poisons her. in theory, the shield would absorb +20 amount, but since the shield will run out after 1.5 seconds, the +20 amount is actually not put into consideration, as the shield just runs out and is not destroyed by force. for the rest of the DoT timer, the damage will surpass the shield and deal damage to her actual life, which can be healed up with HP/5. even tho the shieldamount was buffed, it wasnt put to good use. even if it was buffed by +1000 (you catch my drift?) it wouldnt matter as it would still run out after 1.5 seconds whereas the applied poison would hold for 4 seconds. so in a scenario where the shield is not destroyed, it is simply a nerf to her HP/5 (not a huge one, but still). in a scenario where riven is able to catch a hardhitting spell that will destroy the shield, it will be well worth it, if she is able to do it several times per minute. a good example would be a nidalee spear, as you can clearly see the projectile coming, and time the shield accordingly. however, you could just use the mobility to just dodge the spear. as with most abilities you will see coming, that are strong enough to surpass the shield, they are often dodgeable or not noticeable until it is too late. (example: etc say you fight a nasus, when do you activate your shield? he can Q just after you used it up, so if you use it beforehand, he waits and hits you afterwards. if he activates his Q, you will not have the reactiontime to hit E in time.) in my opinion, it is practically a nerf, because nobody can guarantee that you can mitigate damage with the shield that will break it forcefully SEVERAL TIMES in lane. if anything, it makes her more susceptible to DoT attacks. its by such a small amount, that its almost not worth talking about it however. imo, 36hp per minute is a not even noteworthy change, and nobody can say he lost a lane because of something like that. (because, to die due to it, the enemy would have to destroy the shield and your remaining health, equalling you 20 shield, thus the difference is 16 hp/60sec. if he can kill and burst you in the downtime of the shield, you did something wrong (not warding, wrong engagement etc)). i repeated myself quite some times, jsut to make sure you get what i am saying so i dont have to find this thread and comment on here again XD